Robert Brugger and Kye Nelson are Focusing work partners. The following is a transcript of a work session in which Robert was preparing for a conference presentation.
The following transcript shows how effective it can be to have a particular kind of working relationship for support, when engaged in challenging tasks where one might otherwise feel stuck or overwhelmed. In contrast to the demoralized feeling of ‘this is just too big’, with this kind of support such tasks can actually become engaging and exciting.
The transcript also demonstrates the value of integrating the process of Focusing into one’s work and learning. As you read the text, watch for the places where there are long pauses, or an inarticulate quality. As we grew up, most of us came to feel that such pauses and feeling-our-way modes of speaking make it seem like we didn’t know what we were talking about or lacked confidence, and so we weeded them out.
But in actuality, what can come in such pauses is often very powerful, and very rich. When we stop for a minute or two and attend to our bodily felt sense of the whole situation that is the context for our task, we are then able to bring the whole of our experience and our power to bear as we continue with our work. This kind of stopping and attending to what is unclear and doesn’t yet have words, is what we are referring to when we use the word Focusing.
There are many other layers worth exploring in this material. One is that the session itself shows Focusing integrated into learning in the way that Robert is preparing to demonstrate in his presentation.
Almost nothing has been cut from the original transcript, so it is very long, but we found that it was very compelling reading in the unabridged form, while it was a lot of work to read the abridged one that we thought at first would be better.
Robert is a Focusing trainer based in New York City, and in this session is preparing for an upcoming presentation at the Re-Imagining conference being held there. His purpose in the presentation is to guide participants who are unfamiliar with Focusing to begin to use it in their learning
Okay, so, he said I’m going to have about an hour.
About an hour… out of an hour and a quarter, an hour and a half?
Well, he said there are going to be two speeches, one of them he said 15 to 20 minutes, and one like 5 minutes.
…he was still not sure what space it’s going to be in, and then he wrote me back that they found another space, and so…
Right, right.
Okay, so you’ve got an hour…
Right, let’s just assume I’ve got an hour…
Yeah, and the whole point of what you’re doing is to be responsive to the situation, and…
Right
…so, it doesn’t really matter…
right. No, it really doesn’t. Okay. Now, let’s see… now let me see what does matter here…
mmhm
…well, um…
… [long pause]
Okay. So there’s going to be some information presented there, and it’s going to be in the same room with me and the participants who are also going to be with my segment
Yes, right
…so, um… [breath] …so I guess out of that… and I don’t know if I can…get the script of it beforehand or not…
mmhm
Uh, I guess there’s going to be some lead-in to what I’m doing.
Right
…[long pause]
Okay, so that’s… now… I’m just sort of thinking what could be the next thing here. Um, maybe in some way introduce myself…
Ah.
Or, let’s see it’s something sort of like, um…
What would be a good opening here, or good…
Right
a good…
because that’s sort of something I feel like I do… I could prepare a really good opening, and um…
okay, so let’s see where my, where I need to be here…
okay… [breath]
I have something whenever you want it.
Okay. Yeah, let me just sort of, uh… do a little bit here, and…
Yeah
Um…
…[long pause]
Okay, I just want to try this out. Open with something about focusing…
Mmhm
… [long pause]
and um… something about focusing and learning… I’m not sure about that now. Uh, okay, let me… okay that’s good, I’m putting my body now more in front of a group of people.
Yeah
Okay. Assuming that they have some interest or involvement with education.
Mmhm, right.
Okay. So let me… [breath] …so something which is coming for me now is, um… a learning which um… means something to the learner.
Mmhm. Right, that’s wonderful. That’s what the name of the organization is, is something like, ‘on meaning’.
Mmhm… okay, now a learning which means something to the learner… and then, um… um…
…somewhere in here, maybe say something of my own experience as a learner.
Mmhm
…so let just get that, again, sense that in front of a group of people.
Right
…and then see if I need to make some… sentences here… or if I want to stay a little more with an overview...
okay…
… [long pause]
and um… yeah, let me struggle here a little more. Can you hold your thing, still?
Absolutely
Okay, good, because there’s sort of this tendency like, okay, now say what you wanted, but something also wants to struggle a little more here.
yeah, it’s great
okay, so… there’s a lot going on in my body now…
okay so I guess what I’m struggling with is to get to a place of really speaking directly to somebody. Where I still don’t, I have a thought, but I think ‘oh, that’s maybe not quite right’, so, in some way it maybe keeps me quiet… because I’m not, I feel like, ‘oh, maybe not’, or… ‘it’s not quite right’, or something, so I’m… so um… okay… so let me just get more into the situation again.
… [long pause]
okay, so what’s the question here now? Um, okay. Okay. Um… something… about… me being there as a trainer from the Focusing Institute. And, um… okay, something is important there.
Yes it is
It’s um… it’s because, in some way to give them a sense of who is speaking here, is it a teacher, is it a… somebody who
You are a teacher
Right
A trainer is a teacher
Right. No but I’m just saying… a schoolteacher, somebody who’s working with children, or… so sort of a sense of who is speaking here… and what’s their background… um… and there’s some sense… uh, that I need something about focusing here…
Mmhm
Okay. Okay, something about focusing… and somehow introduce that term… I’m not sure about that now… introduce the term?… introduce… um, maybe introduce focusing as a process. That feels better. Focusing as a process. And now I’m thinking of learning process…
Mmhm
Or learning as a process.
Mmhm
…so let me see where I’m with that now…
… [long pause]
okay, I’m just sort of getting to a… [breath] hmmm…
okay, where am I stuck here, let me just check… well I guess where I’m stuck is to say something like learning process…
mmhm
not to get into any abstract uh, theories, or thoughts, or anything, but really stay right here. Like stay very concrete. And somehow, it’s um, it’s almost like I need something to make that more concrete, if I would use a word like ‘learning process’.
Yeah
Okay, something now is… [breath] huum, it’s sort of, um… some energy is settling now more in my lower body…
Mmhm
… [long pause]
okay… now something else is coming about naming… naming um… what’s um… what’s going on in the room at the present as a learning situation.
Mmhm
… [long pause]
okay… [breath]
and… so naming that as a learning situation… um…
now… and then out of that addressing them as learners
mmhm
but I still need something to get to that place… something about… some introduction about focusing or something…
right
um… so let me just sort of get a little sense of what I did so far
yeah
… [long pause]
okay, basically, what it looks like to me right now is… that um… what the project is here right now for me… is really getting to that place of naming the room as a learning situation and then addressing them as learners.
Mmhm
And from that um… It’s going to be very responsive to the situation and what comes… from the audience… but somehow, uh, there needs to be some kind of… um, some information or some… defining of terms…
Yes, right
…to get to that place.
And, um… okay, so that’s sort of, I mean that makes the project much clearer right now.
Right
It’s not that the first segment wouldn’t have any of that responsiveness in it, but that’s not going to be the main thing…
Right
…and there wouldn’t be as much attention drawn to it.
Right
… [long pause]
okay, I don’t know, maybe say something now… I mean, maybe just reflect, or, I don’t know what, but, I just feel like hearing your voice now.
Okay, um… so there is a sense of this room, this time, being a learning situation, and they are learners in it… uh, and there is a need for defining terms, for bringing focusing in somehow, uh… and then transitioning into more fluidly, kind of responsiveness to their questions and what’s going on with them, in the situation.
… [long pause]
and I have one other thing right there…
okay
um, the… title… uh, as I remember has the word ‘techniques’ in it…and that seems to me to be a very good bridge to focusing. Uh… and then it also has ‘meaning’ in it, and you were talking about, uh… about learning that has meaning…
right
so there’s another bridge… and… I’m also thinking about, uh… the way that… you originally approached this when we first talked about it, where you were very clearly feeling their purpose
right
in being there…
… [long pause]
…and so… you can define the terms in the title, and also, in the process of doing that, bridge to where you want to go, I think
right… right…
… [long pause]
and then there’s something else… can you stand another one, or…
yeah, sure
okay, uh… [breath] in my body I’m feeling how it is to be a participant at that point in the day… uh, it’s late in the day, or relatively late… they’ve been through this whole introduction into the conference, then they’ve come and done a previous thing for an hour and a half, and then they’ve come here. And here they’ve already gotten a couple of speeches. And so I’m feeling the kind of lulled, listening to another lecture, a little bit half-asleep inside, not really in their bodies in an engaged, doing-something way.
Right
My own body responsiveness in that situation is to do something that suddenly wakes them up and makes them be very present…
Right
Uh… and if I address them as ‘you’, and ask them a question, uh… like, kind of like what you were saying before, ‘what is your purpose in coming here, and in entering this room’… uh, then there’s a kind of a waking-up…
Right
And maybe a focusing kind of a question, which introduces focusing… so, there, now I’m done.
… [long pause]
well, uh, there are two things for me right now here…
uh-huh
uh one, could be… and I’m sort of, it came out of what you said, what their bodies might need…
yes, right
to basically not say much… to say something like… um…
let’s see, let me get more in position here…
… [long pause]
okay, so, there was this thought before, now it feels a little scary to do that, or maybe not good enough, or something… so let me try it out anyway.
Okay
… [long pause]
I don’t know, um… it’s almost like sort of a lead-in, how a focusing session could be, into the body… and uh… that would sort of be something other than another lecture…
Yes, right
Um… and the other thing I was thinking was when you said ‘define the terms’ to go into…. Uh, sort of right away inviting the participants to come up with definitions… uh, no that’s not, not definitions, but…
Their sense of
Their sense of
Yes, right
Yes, because I don’t want to say this term means this and this term means this and now that you know what I mean now we can talk.
Yes, right, yes, mmhm
But immediately say, there is this term, and when I heard that, that’s what happened in me…
Exactly
And let me invite you… to get a sense in your body… or in you, I’m not sure how I’m going to say it… uh-huh… what that means to you
Yes… mmhm
Which would sort of go against that… defining the terms and then speaking…
Yes, that’s wonderful, exactly, yes, yes… uh, a way that you could… well I won’t even say it there… unless you want it…
Yeah, go ahead
Uh, you said, I’m not sure how I would say that ‘in your body’ part, uh, what I typically do when I’m doing this kind of thing is uh… do it non-verbally, uh, like… what… uh, ‘what’s your sense’, uh… with a gesture to my middle… uh, or uh…
Well I have another idea here…
Yeah
Or I don’t know, do you need to say more here?… cause I’m sort of thinking of the space, and they might not be able to see me that well… everybody…
Yeah, right…
So I don’t know yet if that uh… if I could speak that way, with a gesture or something… if that could be seen.
Now here’s something that yeah… this is a practical thing, I uh… they will arrange the room to fit how you want it arranged… you’re the one who’s doing most of the stuff… Tell him you want a circle.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that they can see you
Okay, now I’m at a place where… uh… where I could really do something which plays into my strength… with this kind of a process…
Right
[breath] ah… that’s good, because I’ve been sort of struggling to make a lecture here and I might not even need to do that at all.
No, no, that’s the place where I was having to hold my tongue for the whole time
Yeah, right, right… so now I’m at a place where it’s what I’m doing really really well, which is to make a process transparent…
Right [laugh] yeah
And um… um… yeah, I mean… I really do that very well… I do that better than anyone I’ve ever seen.
Uh-huh [laugh] mmm
And um… okay…
… [long pause]
okay, so… I guess… that’s really interesting… now just it’s sort of interesting that… how… what a struggle it was to get to that place now…
mmhm
…where everything is actually very easy.
Yes
So uh, I could, um… start by… reading the title, and demonstrate what meaning comes up in me as I’m reading the title…
Right
And then…
Uh… cause now I’m getting what you said, something… I’m not sure if you said it that way but, that’s what I got, like ‘oh, you can go in and do that any time’…
Mmhm
Like… like it’s not a big uh… I mean you… and I was like… ‘can I?’… like do a lecture like this, or do a presentation like this…
Mmhm
And now it’s sort of like, yeah I can.
Yeah! Of course you can!… you can not only do it, you can do it really well…
Right…right, and that presentation, or that… um… transparent processing…
Mmhm
I’m going to write that down… transparent processing… mmhm… yeah, that includes everything.
Mmhm
I mean that includes the room, the response, everything.
Yeah
And there’s no uh… fear of what might happen… because everything that happens is going to be part of the process.
Right
And um… and I can… make my process transparent.
Yes. Yes.
[breath] huuh.
… [long pause]
so let’s see… what…
… [long pause]
uh, let’s see what… if I need anything else here right now…
right
or what I need or if that’s really all I need…
mmhm
…okay… um… okay so the other thing I can do now as a preparation… um my roommate Paul, who used to be a schoolteacher…
oh, uh-huh
I can try it out with him. Because that would be an audience of an intelligent person
Yes
Who um… who has probably some degree of body awareness…
Oh, that’s fantastic
Uh, but who does not know focusing.
Yes, exactly… that’s wonderful
So I could try it out with him.
Mmhm
… [long pause]
no now I feel like everything is there, like… the pauses I need…
yeah
because I need to listen to something
yeah
the listening to people
yeah, right
the taking in questions that are, in that way of really letting the meaning form inside me…
yes
and then answering
yes
and I can uh… even doing that I can make the whole process transparent by saying, oh, I’m hearing this, or just, yeah, whatever happens…
mmhm
um…
…[long pause]
okay, so now I guess there’s the next… uh… what’s coming… okay now there’s something else about teaching… um…
…[long pause]
something I always disliked very much as a student…
mmhm
was the kind of teaching which just, uh… sort of recited information…
yes
and um… and my answer to that was always ‘just write it down for me’
mmhm, right
and don’t make me sit through reading through something
yeah
and so I guess, so now… I’m thinking of what to put on a handout…
right
okay, so what’s there right now, is the first thing I would put on the handout, is on top is the title of the lecture…
yes
… [long pause]
okay… yeah… uh then my name, and that short bio I forwarded to bruce.
Mmhm
[breath] hmm… okay. Now, uh something I thought I might use, and I sort of wanted to see what you think… I have this um… this really good, I really like, yeah, I think it’s a really good description of the focusing process from Ann… and it’s something like, on the left side she has these descriptions like ‘I’m sensing into my body’ ‘what wants my awareness now’ ‘I’m saying hello’… sort of those self-guiding things?…
right
and then on the, and then next to it it’s an explanation of it… like next to ‘I’m sensing into my body’ is ‘bringing awareness into the body, first the edges, then the middle, naming body parts can be helpful, arms, legs’ … next to ‘I’m saying hello to what’s there’ it says ‘acknowledging what comes’
mmhm
so that’s sort of, I mean that’s… like my favorite description of the focusing process…
yeah, right
so um, I thought maybe putting that on…
not next, I don’t think
not next, okay… uh well, okay… so let me say more here…
yeah
and then I would like to put on, places to get more information
right
like um… the focusing.org address
yes
uh, Gene’s book
right
Ann’s book
right
the dream book… I mean sort of… the list of books
yeah
do you have a website for learningprocess already?… or is there going to be… what’s the
yeah, there will be one for learningprocess, I have that domain name, it’s learningprocess.org
uh huh
and it will redirect to… I still have to work out the… that’s what I was doing last night, was composing an email asking what’s the best way to do that, because I can… I know I can redirect to it… so it will happen.
Right…okay, so
So it can say learningprocess.org
Uh-huh, because that would sort of fit more into the lecture.
Yes, exactly…
and so that’s um… okay… um…
… [long pause]
okay, so let me go back again… so there’s the title of the lecture,
right
there’s a… there’s one or two sentences about me… and then there’s information on how to get more information…
mmhm… yeah, that’s the spot where I still uh, I lift out of my body at that ordering…
oh, with that ordering…
yeah
uh huh… okay… so um… let me check my body response here…
yeah
okay, I think I see now what you mean…
there’s something… what I’m getting is, not being addressed really directly, in a personal way…
exactly
and um… and that’s something I haven’t really thought about in the handout, to… so um… let me go back again to um… what’s happening in the presentation…
mmhm
… [long pause]
…okay
… [long pause]
okay, so, what is it here I want, um…
… [long pause]
okay, so there’s the title, then there’s this little thing about me, and then… hmm…
…[long pause]
I don’t know, almost something like a letter… but I’m not sure…
I guess what’s missing for me here…
Mmhm
Is the function of the handout beyond information
Okay, that’s where I’ve been holding something…
And let me just say what the function could be, maybe…
Yeah
And um… the function could be… and I don’t know if reminding is the right word… but sort of, keep some sense of a body sense… of the presentation…
Right
[breath]… so that would be, I think… yeah… so now say what you have here…
okay…
I think that would be nice to hear
Uh…
If you say that now
Yeah, uh… the other day when you said um, something about the handout, I was feeling what typically happens to a handout, which is that you never look at it again after you leave… with good intentions you file it away and that’s that… uh, if you keep it at all.
Right
So… um… that’s my first realistic question, is… is there a way that the handout can function such that somebody would really want to keep it, or is it a handout that you are only doing for the occasion?
[laugh]
[laugh]
I have… I don’t know where that’s coming from now… but I have this sort of silly idea now…
Uh huh
…but I think what is really there, also, is uh, uh, in some way have the handout be part of the presentation.
Right
And not do a presentation and then give out a handout.
Right
[breath]
so how can it function with the presentation?
right
and then, you’ve got something, de facto, that they may keep, because it holds the place for what happened, because it was part of it
mmhm
… [long pause]
okay…
… [long pause]
so now
I’ve got something there if you want anything, but otherwise…
Well let me try out… a thought which is coming now…
Mmhm
But I don’t know if it makes any sense at all…
Mmhm
Um…
… [long pause]
would almost be like writing something… writing up a process or something…
mmhm
sort of in some way the same thing that I’m doing in the presentation…
mmhm
… um… so let me just get a sense of that, before… I just don’t want to go right away ‘what do you think about that’
right, of course
so I just want to get a sense of that…
right
… [long pause]
I’m not sure… what do you have here…
Okay… um… the best handouts I ever see are ones that provide a… that they are a tool that allows you to do something that you can’t do without it because you’re just learning a process… uh, an example of that is
Elfie’s handouts… uh, function beautifully that way… uh, she has a handout that has basic questions that you can ask, that when… people split up and go and practice, in one of her workshops, they’re using… this is like a level 1… they’re using the handout to help them remember what to do next. So something where it functions as a tool that way… uh, to help them do something that they couldn’t do, because they don’t know the focusing process… that you are going to do in the presentation.
Mmhm, okay…
Then you’ve got a handout that they’ll keep, and they’ll keep referring to… and then all of your references at the bottom will… turn into something that will encourage them to explore further…
Right
So I guess, if I think of the situation Elfie’s writing her handout for… it’s very clear what she wants them to do…
Of course
And what little thing she wants them to learn, or … understand.
Right
And so, I would have to ask, ‘what is it I want them to be able to do?’
Right
And, um… it’s not… I mean like… like wanting them to focus is too abstract.
Mmhm
It doesn’t really do much.
Right, and you’ve only got an hour anyway.
Right. So let me think what I would like them to be able to do.
Right
… [long pause]
I think I would like them to be able to take information in… a little deeper than they’re doing right now, wherever that is.
Right
And that the taking in, and… I guess let a meaning emerge…
Mmhm, mmhm
And connect to some purpose…
I don’t know, that’s a little… the first thing was more from the body…
Yeah, letting a meaning emerge, that is…
That feels very solid. I don’t think you would need to do anything more than that for a one hour thing, just letting a meaning emerge… and considering the whole thing is about meaning… that’s ideal…
Right. [breath] so, what would that look like in a handout now?
Okay, let’s go back to what it would look like… if you are doing it with somebody one on one… What would you do?
Right
Well, I would uh… take in the information, and then uh, sort of stop and notice what happens.
Okay, so now put yourself in the role of a trainer… how would you, with one of the participants, if you are guiding them through the process of doing that, what are you going to say?
Okay… I say… what do you notice as you are hearing those terms or those sentences…
Mmhm
Is there anything you notice, at all?
Mmhm
… [long pause]
and um… and then name that.
Right
And, if there’s no sensation at all, just name it ‘nothing’. That’s something too.
Mmhm
[breath]
and then naming that, take that handle, or, I don’t know if I want to use the word ‘handle’ at this point
probably not
probably not, okay… uh, take that name… is that right… naming it, take… take what came, and see if it resonates.
Exactly… take what came… and ‘resonates’, again, is too abstract…
Take what came, and say it back
Yeah
And then notice… uh, if… let’s see…
If it fits exactly…
… [long pause]
um, I guess if there’s um…
… [long pause]
maybe just, ‘and notice what happens when you say it back’.
Mmhm
…now ‘saying it back’ is still going to be confusing a little bit
[breath] okay… notice what happens when you… say it
yes
… [long pause]
it’s also my presentation is becoming more clear now
yes, right
because this is exactly what I’m going to do in the presentation
yes, exactly, and this is going to mark it for them
right
…[ long pause]
so um…
…[long pause]
okay, let’s see… so I have to go back again over it.
Mmhm
And also get a sense of what the actual sentence could look like on the handout
Right
…[long pause]
so the… um… the title which comes now for this… is like ‘letting meaning emerge’
mmhm… yes, that’s beautiful
that would be the title of the little exercise… ‘letting meaning emerge’
and then, um… the first sentence would be, um… letting in information, but that’s not quite right… um…
… [long pause]
taking in… I don’t really like the word information here. Taking in knowledge… knowledge?
I don’t like it, either
No, that’s even worse
Let’s be really direct
Right
Uh, something like, ‘what you just heard’…
Yeah, that’s much better… taking in… what you just heard
[breath]
… [long pause]
and uh… notice… okay what is it, noticing, notice…
… [long pause]
a sense of it inside
mmhm
… [long pause]
sense of it inside…
…[long pause]
or, you could even say, in the center of your body…
…[long pause]
or, inside you
yes, that’s good, there you go, ‘the sense of it inside you’, beautiful
yeah, cause then it goes also more into personal meaning
yes, exactly, that’s beautiful
the sense of it inside you…
yes
and then name that sense…
mmhm… now I think you’re going to have to do something other than ‘name’
other than name?
Yes… ‘let words come for’… or…
Right, right right right… that ‘emerging’
Mmhm
Letting meaning emerge
Mmhm
[breath]
… [long pause]
it’s funny, because where I’m at right now, is um… is sort of the place where it goes a little deeper than naming body sensations or feelings
yeah
that really goes into ‘letting meaning emerge’
yes
…like what does this mean to you
mmhm
which is different than ‘something is getting heavy when I think about this’…
exactly
… [long pause]
okay, ‘notice the sense of it inside you’…
… [long pause]
okay, well, how about ‘notice its meaning for you’?
… is that too quick now
uh, that’s too quick… uh, what will be coming for them is associations with other things, uh… bits of their lives, stuff like that
right
… [long pause]
so um…
… [long pause]
thinking, taking in what you just heard and notice the sense of it inside you…
um…
… [long pause]
I don’t know, something like ‘allow all thoughts and feelings and body sensations to be present’?
Yeah, that works
… [long pause]
okay…
… [long pause]
okay, now what is it.. I’m sort of a little… something’s getting tight in my head…
okay
so, let me just… um…
… [long pause]
yeah, I’m… just let that relieve a little… get myself some relief here
yeah
[breath] huum
… [long pause]
so notice a sense of it inside you…
it’s almost like I want to go a little further with sense of it
yes
that’s the…
mmhm
and um… and I think that’s why I’m stuck
mmhm
cause, because it’s like the… the… what I just said is sort of jumping again into the thoughts and sensations, and… which might be present but maybe for this I could just follow that sense…
right
and, um… so let’s see…
… [long pause]
uh, if I would do that now myself what happens?… oh actually, I bought that World Press Review yesterday
did you
yeah, I wanted to get a sense of
of where that
of where you are placing your ad
mmhm
… yeah it’s great… so, so if I, let’s say… I just have that next to me so I’m uh… I’ll just take like a headline here…
Mmhm
And see if I can do what I’m uh… asking them to do
Right
Uh, so the headline here is ‘burning issues: why press freedom matters’
Mmhm
Okay…
… [long pause]
so… my sense of that is that um… um… something is in danger.
Right
So I’m just going over my own instructions now, so ‘taking in what you just heard, notice a sense of it inside you’.
[breath] huum
so I… okay, so that’s I think where, where I need to go a little further is, um… sense of it… there’s a… is it a sense? Or is it a feeling? I’m sort of, that’s where I think…
yeah, right
um…
… [long pause]
and then I’m not sure if this headline is a good thing to use now… for this
okay, uh
if I should get, look for something else to do this now
right, uh… this can be part of the handout… is… uh, what you are doing right now… this becomes an example of it they can take with them… you just write it up as it happens
… you mean write it on the handout?
Yeah
Uh huh, like a little article?
Uh no not, not even an essay… it’s just… like the way I visualize it you could have two sides… on the left side you’ve got the exercise, the questions, the what… you know, the guidance… on the right hand side you have what you did there.
Mmhm
And, uh, only a few words really, each place… so you get a quick sense, almost a visual sense… of the process
Mmhm
Does that make sense?
Yeah
Okay
Yeah… [breath]
… [long pause]
okay so let me see where am I stuck here now… I think with this headline it doesn’t go anywhere for me…
yeah right, so you have to find something that would…
right
Matisse would…
Right. Okay that’s a good… okay let me use that, I have the book right here, one second
Mmhm
… [long pause (off the phone)]
but now… ah yeah, that’s right…
… [long pause]
okay
don’t say anything for a second, because there’s something really crucial right here.
Okay
What just happened should be part of it… you are saying, with your own body, it’s absolutely critical in letting an emerging meaning come… to have something to work with that will go somewhere for you…
Right… right…
… [long pause]
yeah…
… [long pause]
yeah, so it’s not like any piece of information has to have a meaning…
right, so then what I would do right there with that… they’ve been exposed to a good bit of information, they maybe already have handouts… uh, it can be a different piece of information for each person… something that draws them… that they would like to go into further.
Mmhm… right…
… [long pause]
right [breath]
… [long pause]
yeah, it’s… in some way that happened with… the title…
mmhm
of the… of… what was your lecture…
right
that drew me
right
further there
right, exactly
[breath]
I mean, this wouldn’t have happened if the title had been… ‘focusing is great’, or…
Yes exactly… [laugh]… right
… [long pause]
okay, so where am I stuck here… um…
uh… I’ve got a body sense…
I think I’m still stuck with this headline, because the headline is not really a statement… and it doesn’t really mean anything.
Right… um… but you need to find something… it doesn’t really matter what it is… you need to find something you want to go into further…
Right, right
Um… my own body, right now feels the need to get up, and move for 30 seconds
Mmhm
Uh, so… I want to do that, and go to the bathroom… while you look for something else… I’ll just keep the… the phone on, because I’ll be back in 30
Okay, I’ll go to the bathroom too… I have something else already
Okay
I have the sentence… I’ll be right back…
… [long pause]
hello…
…I’m back
I’m here
Okay
[breath] okay, so I have a sentence here from the Matisse book…
mmhm
okay… ‘In art, the genuine creator… is not just a gifted being… but a man who has succeeded in arranging… a complex of activities… for their appointed end, of which the work of art is the outcome.’
Mmhm
[breath] hmmm
so if I take my instructions and say ‘taking in what you just heard, notice the sense of it inside you’
mmhm
um… I would say… um… there’s a sense of order and power.
[breath] Mmhm
… [long pause]
and um… something… um…
it’s like a certain kind of working.
Mmhm
And proceeding… which um… um…
… [long pause]
yeah, puts things in a certain complex order, to achieve a result.
Right
… [long pause]
so uh… let’s see… there’s something coming now about understanding
mmhm
[breath] and um…
it’s some…
okay maybe that’s… um… it’s almost like…
… [long pause]
I think the question would be ‘How do you understand this?’
Mmhm, mmhm
Like there’s the... notice the sense of it…
Right
And then the… maybe notice how you understand…
Yes, beautiful…
you understand something…
beautiful
… and that’s different from trying to figure out how… he meant it
mmhm
because I don’t know how Matisse meant it
right, exactly
but this is what I’m getting from reading this.
Right
… [long pause]
okay ‘so notice how you understand something’… and, um…
‘something’ won’t work
I’m sorry?
‘something’ wouldn’t work… the word ‘something’ in it
right
how you understand ‘this’
right.
… this, how you understand…
‘what came’… um ‘what…’
what you were reading or hearing
yes, right… right, there you go
… [long pause]
and then I think you could go to ‘what does it mean to you?’
mmhm, yes
[breath]
yeah, this is beautiful
okay, can we test it with another sentence?
Uh, have you gone all the way already, with this one, with ‘what does it mean to you?’?
[breath] uh, okay… let me… uh it means to me that there is a… um…
let’s see…
… [long pause]
it means that there is a way of… ordering… complex activities…
um… which result in a work of art…
and it means to me that the…
uh… it’s like um… something one… does with their consciousness… or consciously is doing…
which…um…
… yeah, which involves a certain intelligence in arranging things in a…
… I don’t know, I’m going in circles now.
Mmhm
Um
Uh, as a painter, what does it mean for you?… uh, in your life, what does it mean?… I think that that’s the next question on the same track, before you have it complete.
Right… right
… [long pause]
uh, as a painter what it means to me is to…
to be…
in command of a range of complex activities.
Mmhm
And that that can be done… if um…
If one takes the time to… um… learn or study…
Uh that’s good because what’s also… I mean what’s also important here for me, in doing this presentation… is that the meaning doesn’t necessarily come that quick, like a thought
Yes, right
But that um… that it might take a while to put it into words
Yes
And that it might not happen in a few minutes, or an hour.
And so you want to say that on the handout.
Mmhm
… [long pause]
[breath] okay
… well I would say… personal meaning… might not have words yet.
Mmhm
…[long pause]
um… but there may be a body sense of it already
oh that’s beautiful
… [long pause]
[breath] hmm
… [long pause]
so um…
so one… let’s see, I mean one thing, it’s like, um…
‘what do I need more here?’… that sort of a question…
and the other thing I would like to…
um… I’m not sure… how to put it into the handout, or somehow what I would like to address is the shift in focusing.
Mmhm
That things are changing shapes
Well… if you want it to be integral with this… uh… where do you feel you could go with this and… end up with that… in the course of this example you’re working up? What would you need to do next to get to that… shift point?
Okay, okay, that’s right, that’s right, thank you, thank you.
[breath]
… [long pause]
well… I could um…
… [long pause]
I could name the meaning… but… let’s see…
Um… let’s see…
Well what I would say now is ‘write down meaning’…
mmhm
um, let’s see… let’s see here… um
well what I could do in the presentation…
mmhm
would be, I don’t know the meaning, but there are some thoughts of what it could be… and I could, like invite somebody to be my focusing partner…
mmhm
and I could say a meaning and have them reflect it back
right
and then I could say ‘yes’, ‘no’… sort of what happens in a focusing process.
Mmhm
[breath] and um… and then um… another way to do that would be to write down a sentence.
Mmhm
And then read it, and notice… ‘notice what happens’ is too abstract here…
Notice um…
… [long pause]
it’s almost like notice if something’s… notice if… something in you says ‘yes’ to that?… or, I don’t know, that’s not specific enough here…
mmhm
notice um…
‘opens up’ is the word I would use, ‘if something in you opens up and gets a little bit excited, or… uh… if you feel a ‘more’ of some kind, or…’
so I would say ‘name meaning and notice if something opens up… or if you sense any movement in your body’… I don’t know if that’s right
yeah, in your… that’ll be confusing to them… the… they’ll take it literally [laugh]
if something opens up or gets more clear
yeah
because that’s uh…
more clear… opens up, gets more clear… gets more interesting
right, more clear…
… [long pause]
[breath]
[laugh] I feel now like what we were saying, at… at that place where you feel it’s almost finished, or almost done… and then each thing which I think, ‘well now it’s going to be done’ opens up more…
yeah, uh huh, right [laugh]
and… and gives you more work
yes [laugh] right
[breath]
… [long pause]
well I guess… what I want to… what I want to convey here is that meaning is not something static
exactly
that it’s not like… ‘oh, now I spent all this time finding the meaning and now I’ve got it’
mmhm, right
now I’ve succeeded…
right
but that there is not something static
it emerges, and it keeps emerging
yeah
emerging is an ongoing process
[breath]
… [long pause]
okay…
… [long pause]
okay so let me… let me go back to my sentence here
mmhm
so the last one was ‘what does it mean to you?’
mmhm
and then, I wrote down ‘personal meaning might not have words yet, but there may be a body sense already’
mmhm
and, uh…
… [long pause]
‘name meaning and notice if something opens up’… [breath] huuh
… [long pause]
okay, so, so if I would name the meaning of that sentence now… is something about, um…
… [long pause]
if you can see or perceive um… I don’t know I’m just going to say this… more like for myself now I think…
if you can perceive what’s going on… I don’t know, I don’t like ‘what’s going on’, but… what… if you can perceive what’s um…
functioning… or… um… let me see…
okay let me, let me stay with me as a painter
right
if you can see…
and get to know what elements…
go into making a painting…
you can be very powerful.
Right
… [long pause]
okay, so now something opens up and is more clear
mmhm
[breath] huum
now… okay
… [long pause]
okay, so what’s… what’s there for me now… and I don’t know how to put it into a handout… and I sort of don’t… sort of… also thinking like how far to take them in this time…
yeah, right
cause for me now… there… that’s what’s really the interesting thing, is the opening up… I don’t even care about the words I used…
right, right
that much…
right
and now I would say ‘something opened up, so maybe, I could even find better words now’…
uh huh… yes, that you could put, and it’s beautiful… ‘now something opened up, and I could even maybe find better words now’… that’s gorgeous…
[breath]
… [long pause]
okay, so maybe I can find better words…
okay… so let me do that now
mmhm
… [long pause]
uh, it would be…
… [long pause]
it would be mastering each… I don’t know, that’s not quite right… well, let me see if that’s right…
mastering… each tool I’m using…
mmhm
and… um…
… [long pause]
um…
…. [long pause]
I don’t know, ‘coordinating’ is not right, quite right…
And…um…
… [long pause]
and understanding how they could all work together…
Mmhm. Mmhm.
Um…
gives me… uh… the power to create a work of art.
Mmhm
There… there’s something with complexity has to be in there
Mmm
[breath]
okay, so what… what I would say now is, what I’m following here… is not so much um… the words I’m using but… okay, I’m following some kind of inner understanding here
mmhm
and, inner meaning
right
no, actually, that’s it… my understanding… my deep understanding… or my understanding on a deeper level of this…
mmhm
uh… there’s some connection between understanding and meaning.
right
[switch to new tape]
…okay, so there was something with understanding and meaning
Right, somehow they’re connected, some…
So how do I understand that that’s my meaning?…
mmhm
Okay, so what’s there now is the really…
Okay… so what’s being… what’s really important here is for me… to ask How do I understand this, as opposed to somebody telling me what it means,
right
or how I should understand it?
right, right…
Okay, so what’s also happening, there is this… um… interest in me… interest… let’s see…
…Well in a simple way I would say there is now room for me to move.
mmhm, mmhm, yeah … ‘For me there is now room to move.’…
…So it’s like somebody else telling me the meaning of something closes something.
Yes… say that too.
mmhm…
…closes… maybe I could even say, closes my learning process.
Yes… exactly… beautiful
…Yeah …and um, …so now my interest right now is to go over the sentence again…
mmhm…
…to read it again… so that’s what I’m going to do now… [breath]
…okay, ‘In art, the genuine creator is not just a gifted being, but a man who has succeeded in arranging a complex of activities for their appointed end, of which the work of art is the outcome.’
… [long pause]
okay, so again there is this um…
…so my understanding of this now is there’s a building something…
mmhm
…out of complex activities.
mmhm.
…or, let’s see um, if I need to name it complex activities…
There’s building something out of a…
…well, he says a complex of activities… okay
right
okay, so there’s a building something… arranging some…it’s funny because at first I sort of um …I’m getting closer and closer to his words…
mmhm, yes, okay, so say that too
…in saying the meaning.
Yes, that’s critically important… ‘I’m getting closer and closer to his words, in saying the meaning now.’
…[long pause]
So the next step here is that his words start to mean something to me…
Yes, say that too.
mmhm…
…which is the exact opposite of if somebody had told me ‘this means this’…
right
…and now, that’s the meaning, on to the next, just remember it.
Yes, yes, say that too.
Mmhm, to mean something to me…
It’s the opposite of someone saying ‘this is what it means, now remember that.’
Mmhm…
… [long pause]
… okay… [breath] Hmmm…
it’s funny, because now I read the sentence and I don’t need any other words for it.
Say that too…. ‘Now I read the sentence and I don’t need any other words for it.’
… [long pause] Mmhm…
…So now what I want to do is read the next sentence.
[laugh] So say that, too.
[laugh] Yeah.
…So let’s see, can I just read that one sentence?
Of course.
It’s almost 10:00 now.
Yeah.
Okay… ‘Thus, for the artist, creation begins with vision.’
Hmmmm, [laugh] Hm…
…okay, that’s inter… because now there’s like, almost like a feeling response there…
yeah
…which kind of, almost blocks out any thinking right now…
mmhm…
And there’s also a sort of a shift from that first sentence to this one… which my body’s catching up with…
right
… [breath]
… [long pause]
This is what the learning process can be.
Wow. It’s powerful.
Robert Brugger is a trainer with the Focusing Institute, with a special interest in combining Focusing with purpose.
Contact him at 212/543-1422, robertbrugger@hotmail.com .